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tomorrow. good evening, everyone, this is the "kudlow report." gun controls are coming whether we like it or not, this cannot be done by executive decree as vice president biden suggested today. congress must vote, and then, again, a full-court press on guns has now apparently put walmart into the conversation. also in washington as i feared, obama's staff chief jack liu is headed for the treasury. i think it's a bad appointment, wrong on every count. we'll have howard dean and steve forbes debate the issue. and in cooperstown, new york, rampant steroid use has resulted in this, no one will be inducted into the baseball hall of fame this year, no bonds, no clemens, no one. we have the latest on this major league dis. it's not a fiscal emergency, it's about the flu and it's not going to be the only city. and finally, this trillion dollar platinum coin idea to solve the debt. not only stupid, it'll make the

u.s. look like a banana republic. can we please avoid that, at least? the "kudlow report" begins right now. another big day on the gun control front. a key statement from vice president biden on the issue. eamon javers joins us with the details. good evening, eamon. >> the white house suggests it could use an executive order to move gun control legislation reform forward here in washington, d.c. and also today, the vice president met at the white house with gun control advocates, some of whom shared their personal and emotional stories. >> my name is annette nance and my 16-year-old son blair holt was killed in chicago in 2007. >> i witnessed my mother and 12-year-old brother shot and killed in our living room and

the next day witnessed my grandfather shoot the next door neighborhood. >> i'm collin goddard, i was shot four times. >> and even before the meeting with those folks, the vice president suggested that the administration is determined to act. >> every once in a while, there's something in the wake of the conscience of the country. and that tragic event like nothing i've seen in my career. so we're here today to deal with a problem that requires immediate action. >> and meanwhile, the state of new york could be moving ahead with legislation of its own. >> this is not taking away people's guns. i own a gun, i own a remmington shotgun, i've hunted, i've shot, that's not what this is about. it is about ending the unnecessary risk of high-capacity assault rifles.

>> and laerry, after all of the activity today, representatives of the nra and walmart, which is one of the nation's leading retailers of guns are going to meet with vice president biden and officials over at the white house, as well. the vice president's office just releasing a statement within the past couple of minutes saying he's going to have three separate meetings tomorrow, including one in the evening tomorrow with representatives of the entertainment industry. larry. >> all right, eamon javers, thanks very, very much. and now to talk about this, let's bring in our panel, we have karen finney, and former dnc communications director, we have guy benson, political editor for townhall.com and mark simone wor radio talk show host. good evening, everybody. >> hey, larry. >> guy benson, let me start with you. if you're talking about restricting automatic guns. if you're talking about restricting these 100-bullet magazine cartridges and so forth, you can't do that by

executive. >> well, i totally agree with that. and you are sometimes starting to hear automatic weapons con flated with semiautomatic weapons conflated with automatic assault weapons. some of the jargon that goes on. you're 100% right, i'm not a conservative when it comes to gun-related issues. i think that any restriction has to meet a constitutional test. and also the test of whether or not it'll actually remedy the problem that presents itself. if we're going to do this, at least do it the way that governor cuomo is doing it, through the legislative process, rather than the way the president has attempted to do it as he has time and again where hep finds congress to be rather convenienced so he bypasses them as if he doesn't exist. that's not the way we work in this country, it's not the way we should work. we have a constitution for a reason. >> karen finney. biden also did say that separate legislation would be required. >> sure. >> and i agree with guy. look, i would like to see some

changes made. okay. i'm willing to see restrictions made. but i want to get your take on this. because we had a bill from 1994 to 2004 that had a lot of restrictions. including the semiautomatic guns. that bill was never extended, never, not under george w. bush, not under barack obama. essentially, karen, is not that bill going to have to be extended? that's going to be at the heart of this process. you can't make executive decisions alone. >> well, i think what the vice president was saying, there's going to be a number of different ideas put on the table and some, you know, some folks will agree with and some others won't agree with. and we know back in 2011 not that long after congresswoman gaby giffords had been shot in that horrible incident, the justice department again convened some meetings and did the same thing sort of looking at what options could be done by executive order. i think we need to be careful to separate out that the administration is going to look at what things to solve this problem can be done by executive order and what things have to be handled through the legislative process. i want to say on the issue of

automatic and semiautomatic weapons, i've talked to a number of soldiers who have mentioned they're shocked that the gun they saw looked a lot like the same guns they carry in afghanistan. i thought general mcchrystal put it very well earlier this week in making the point that even in the semiautomatic realm, we know the guns can be modified, which is what happened to aurora in the 100-magazine clips. >> i think they should be restricted substantially, i think these 100-bullet ammunition magazines should be restricted substantially. mark simone, what do you think about this? because a lot of this is going to come to new york through andrew cuomo? >> i'm not against gun control. i don't see civilian use for those big guns and all that. but to think that solves the problem is crazy. can't trust any politician who just proposes gun laws and goes back to sleep. the fact that a deranged person, like the one in newtown,

connecticut, could still enter the school with a couple of handguns or a knife or axe. if we're not going to talk about mental health, we're not talking about the problem. >> i want to talk about mental health. i don't know if this kid could've been stopped but he was obviously mentally ill, should have been institutionalized, and i think, mark, i'm going to guess, cuomo mentioned this specifically, i hope the federal legislation deals with this too. it's got to be easier for national documentation for people with mental illness problems and for what i'll call reinstitutionalizing them. they've been out on the street for years and need to go back into the institutions, mark simone, that should be part of the change. >> absolutely, we've cut the number of institutions, the funding, all that sort of stuff through the years. we just have more people like this on the streets. you know, in china, they're having these incidents in schools with greater frequency and they have no guns, it's being done with axes, swords, we've got to do something about these sort of people being loose. >> if we're going to talk about

the mental health component which i absolutely believe we should having lived in california after proposition 13 passed and you had a lot of mentally ill people put right back on the streets, making our streets more dangerous. what that means is when we get to these talks about spending cuts and when states are talking about cuts, we have to be very careful what we're talking about and recognize that we may have to make those cuts, but this may be a consequence of some of those cuts if we can't get somebody in the private sector to make up the difference. >> i'll spend another buck or two to do it. but let me mention, on to a slightly different subject on this whole matter, that is joe biden meeting with the nra which fascinates me. it tells how smart a politician joe biden is. do you think he can pick up any support on anything with the nra? >> i think it's window dressing, smart, politically savvy window dressing, but i think the white house and nra have completely different goals and agendas here. but the white house will at least say, hey, look, we met with the other side. whether or not it's in good

faith i think remains to be seen. and one more thing, i want to go back to governor cuomo, and i am no fan of governor cuomo's, but i will, once again, echo what you said, larry, part of his package that he's introduced in new york does explicitly address the mental health issue which i think actually is important and it also toughens laws when it comes to committing crimes with weapons. >> right. >> that's also an important element. >> let me just walk through. hang on a second. let me walk through. i didn't like cuomo's -- karen, you'll love it, i hate it. i do like him on gun controls. tighten assault weapon bans. here's one, mark simone, renew licenses every five years. i like that a lot. limit large ammunition sales, i like that a lot. and much better background checks. not only for the mentally ill, but for everybody. all private sales should be strictly monitored with background checks, mark simone, whether it's in the state or the federal government. that is so important. >> those are all great.

i'm for all of those. but to think that's going to solve the problem. none of this stuff is going to cause less shootings on the street of chicago or terrible incidents like -- >> mark, you can't say that. you don't know that's true. how can you possibly say that? if some of the -- if some of the shootings that have happened over the last couple of years, if some of those individuals had not had access to high-capacity magazines, like in aurora, colorado, where even the police had no way of knowing they had someone in their community amassing large numbers of weapons, of, you know, gas, and the kinds of things we now know he booby-trapped his apartment with as well as ammunition. if they had had some way of knowing, hey, there's this guy he seems to be ordering all this stuff. how do you know that wouldn't have prevented something? >> i suppose it would been greater if he had a lesser weapon, but you'll still have this nut in there and have death. >> so we should do nothing? >> no, we should do -- >> you're saying basically this one thing won't solve the problem -- we're going to have to do a number of things. >> we can't stop at gun laws.

>> and that's what everybody's saying. that's what the whole conversation has been. >> karen -- >> but, guy, i'll say this, just get my two cents back into this. i'm for handguns, i'm for concealed handguns, i'm for rifles, all manner of hunting and shotguns and things of that nature. it's the semiautomatic stuff and these 100-bullet ammunition things that bother the heck out of me. that's what scares me. and i do think the background check documentation for both the mentally ill or anybody buying a gun is deficient. i think the computer systems, can be completely changed and must be changed. >> larry, i think it's important to point out that many, many handguns and many rifles are semiautomatic already. and have been, most americans think, oh, wow, must be this big military-style gun. but, in fact, a lot of everyday guns are already semiautomatic. i think you make an interesting point, but it's also worth addressing the fact that some of the locations and jurisdictions

with the most stringent gun laws have the highest gun violence rate and murder rate. and finally, larry, on this renewing every five years the license thing, i'm not 100% sure why you do that. and i do worry about the implications that has for totally law-abiding gun owners. why should they have to do it? >> all right. let's stay with us. karen, guy, and mark, going to stick around. we've got to check in with you on a number of topics this evening. the big dis because of steroids, no one has been elected to the baseball hall of fame this year, nobody. we're going to ask someone who actually had a vote about the whole subject. and later, president obama is about to nominate jack liu for treasury secretary. i say it's a terrible idea. what do big names like steve forbes and howard dean say? we're going to ask them. i suspect sparks will fly. and don't forget, folks, free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. somebody's got to teach that to jack liu. we'll be right back. ♪ you know my heart burns for you... ♪

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for only the eighth time since voting began in 1936, brian, the voting membership did not elect anyone to cooperstown. leading the pack on 68% on

ballots passed, 39 votes short of election. >> all right. for the first time since 1996, no one got elected to the baseball hall of fame today. brian shactman joins us with the details. brian, i guess this was about one thing, steroids. >> it was, larry. and it's pretty striking the names that didn't make the list. i want to quickly for viewers run through those that came close to getting into the hall of fame. they mentioned craig biggio, and jeff morris, jeff bagwell, mike piazza tim raines, and lee smith. they need 75% to get into the hall of fame, roger clemens, barry bonds, roger clemens won seven cy young awards, barry bonds won seven awards. mark mcgwire, less than 17%, sammy sosa, 12.5%, rafael

palmeiro, almost all of them would be first ballot hall of famers. this is only the third time since 1961, it's pretty shocking and it is kind of an overall indictment on an entire era of our national pass time. >> have any of these stars fessed up to their steroid use? have any of them to this day come clean? >> well, when it comes to barry bonds, he says he never knowingly took steroids. clemens has been steadfast that he is innocent. and i always equate this to the lance armstrong debate. and we get into this with mr. verducci who is a great baseball reporter and historian, the evidence is overwhelming, the longer they don't tell the truth, the harder it is for these people to live good lives, actually. >> getting honest with yourself. brian, stick around with me. stay with me on this. let's bring tom verducci, the

senior writer for "sports illustrated." tom, thank you very much for helping us. first question, the obvious one, what do you make of this? the great stars who were steroid users just got completely wiped out in the votes as our brian shactman just reported. >> yeah, sort of dovetails with the pattern as we've seen with guys like mcgwire and palmeiro. anyone associated with p.e.d.s is not getting into the hall of fame. i think what people have to remember is it's not a snapshot of just one year. players can stay on the ballot as long as they get more than 5% of the vote. for up to 15 years, so it'll be interesting going forward to see if this level of let's call it noninterest and people associated with p.e.d.s goes up at all. right now, i don't know what to think because the totals are so low, it's in question whether 15 years is enough to get some of these guys into the hall of fame. >> just to continue the question that i asked brian shactman. these big guys, all right, bonds, clemens, and sosa, let's

stay with them, 36% for bonds, 37.6% for clemens, 12.5% for sosa. if they don't come clean, tom, if they don't come clean, do you think seriously they'll ever move up in the ratings that they'll ever have a chance? >> no, i don't. mark mcgwire was a good example. he was on the ballot prior to his admission and after his admission, there's basically no traction in his voting support whatsoever. on the other hand, it did help him get back into baseball as a major league coach. so if any one of these players has ideas of getting back into major league baseball, whether as a consultant, specifically as a cold in field in uniform, i think they can't do it without some sort of coming clean moment, which brings us to the lance armstrong case who wants to participate in triathlons certainly needs some sort of coming clean to participate. >> tom, couple quick things. first of all, are you a voter? >> i am. >> and are you willing to share

what your take is on the whole concept and what your votes were? >> yeah, for me, anybody who i know is connected to p.e.d.s will not vote for them. to me my vote is an endorsement of somebody's career. an entire career. and i view an endorsement for a p.e.d. users a an endorsement of of steroids and i'm not willing to go there. >> in clemens and bonds, people think they were hall of famers even before their alleged abuse. but what do you do with the generation here? listen, these are big names that would've had great inductions, do we wipe everything off the slate? do we bring back the record? how do we handle this historically? >> it's a great question. i've heard people say we're not giving proper homage to an entire generation of players. i would disagree with that. last year barry larkin, for instance, was voted into the hall of fame. there was really no discussion about p.e.d. use. he was not connected whatsoever. and next year, i think, we go

from a shutout to what's going to be, i think, a mass induction ceremony where you have people like greg maddox, frank thomas, all eligible for the first time who i believe will be first-ballot hall of famers and people like craig biggio who may get in next year. you mentioned 1996, the last time there was a shutout, there were six players on that ballot who eventually got into the hall of fame. so this is not a situation of closing the door, but saying that the voters need more time. >> what is interesting about that point if you get a good bunch in next year, tom, the baseball hall of fame is in a lot of financial trouble. eight deficits in the past ten years, the town of cooperstown is hurting because they're not getting the tourist attraction. this year is going to be a big zero with no one inducted. what's the hall of fame going to do? >> and that's what i thought of, the mom and pops down in cooperstown, new york.

leading up to the induction ceremonies for a good chunk of their business. without anybody to induct next year or really anybody alive because the three players from the veterans committee are going in but they've been deceased for 75, 80 years, it's going to take a big impact on them economically. hopefully they can look beyond the horizon or the 2014 and say we might be getting four, five, six, maybe even seven players with veteran committee electees in 2014. so the drought of '13, hopefully for those kind of people will be made up for in 2014 economically. >> it looks like nobody will get in, can we waive the rules and put derek jeter in right away? can we put jeter in? >> i wouldn't have a problem with it. i think he might. but certainly that would be -- and people have talked about the crowds for cal ripken and tony guinn. >> thank you very much, brian shactman, likewise. and you can catch brian on cnbc sports biz. he's going to talk about the end

of the nhl lockout with lundqvist, one of my heroes k p.m. friday on the nbc sports network. now, something that's threatening the health and finances of major cities across the country, the flu. this year's outbreaks are throwing major cities into a real bind. one city has just declared a health emergency. that story coming up. i had enough of feeling embarrassed about my skin.

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it'll be all our money soon. but penmanship is the least of his problems. we'll talk more about that coming up. and if you think you've heard it all, then listen to this. there really are some people calling the government to mint a $1 trillion coin to get us out of the debt mess. a platinum coin. are they serious? magic coin? is this going to be a banana republic? what is this super mario brothers? we're going to have the whole story coming up in a few minutes. at 1:45, the aflac duck was brought in

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welcome back to the "kudlow report." i'm larry kudlow. and this half hour, call it the magic coin trick. will the greatest nation in the history of the world resort to a banana republic gimmick like minting a $1 trillion platinum coin to get out of the debt corner? it's a stupid and ridiculous idea. before we get to that, i still say he's a bad choice for treasury secretary. he has no international background, was one of america's worst budget directors, way too far to the left and republican

directors can't stand him. who would've been a better choice? i've got a few choices. larry fink would have been just fine, jamie dimon, ken chenault and steve scharzman. and would've sent a better signal to the markets. here now to talk about it, cnbc contributor, former presidential candidate howard dean. and forbes media chairman steve forbes, author of "freedom manifesto," why free markets are moral and big government is not. well, howard dean, maybe i'm too hard on him, but i think this is a dreadful choice. no financial, no international, doesn't know anything about the dollar. and maybe the worst part, he was a terrible budget director. look at the spending and deficit and debt he created. how can we give him the treasury? >> well, i'm chortling here because of your outrage over the $1 trillion coin matched with your outrage over jack lew, i

can't figure out which is mor amusing. should we put that in the democratic party platform? >> it already is, that's what's amusing. >> very good, very good. >> let's talk about jack lew for a second. normally this position should go to somebody from the finance world. i think that, unfortunately, that's very difficult to do that because the finance world had a lot to do with the crash in 2008. but normally those are the best people for this job. for treasury. and if you look at george w. bush, his first two people were quite able, especially paul o'neill, but they did not, were not able to do the treasury the way paulson did, which helped us get out of this dreadful problem that we had that started in 2008. so it is good to have a finance person. on the other hand, i believe you're wrong about omb. jack lew's been a terrific director of omb and most importantly, he absolutely does have a lot of foreign policy experience. when you're the chief of staff to the president of the united states, you have as much

experience as the president of the united states. >> he didn't spend much time there. he wasn't there very long. >> he was there for difficult times, larry, he really was. this guy, he may not be the usual classic case, but when the chief of staff goes and becomes the president of the united states. he became treasurer of the united states. he was a good treasurer. >> he was a bank -- you're right, jimmy baker was, but he was a bank director and he knew a lot about it as a corporate lawyer. steve forbes, i just go down the list. this is not personal. i've never met mr. lew. i'm saying on qualifications, he has no markets standing, he has no financial standing or discussions, i don't know what he's going to do with the dollar which has fallen 10% over obama. and steve, i do judge him harshly as omb director. after all, the massive spending and deficit and debt creation, jack lew was presiding over all of that. >> yes, well, he reflects the beliefs of his boss. and i'm sure he's a nice guy, man of integrity, but he's wrong

on the budget, wrong on taxes and wrong on the dollar. you're wrong in on those three things, it's not going to be a happy tenure. i couldn't care about his resume, as long as he was a smart guy that could get up to speed quickly with his international counterparts and alike. but he's wrong on the three most profound things out there. you know the dollar, the tax code, the spending, all contributing to the disastrous economy we have now. >> and on top of that -- howard dean, i've got to tell you, you may not agree with this either. okay. but a lot -- >> most likely not. >> a lot of republicans really blame jack lew. they say he's intransigent. hep doesn't know how to discuss and compromise. he was the guy who screwed up the 2011 discussions between obama and john boehner. it was so bad that boehner finally said get him out of the room because all he does is say no and disrupt things. now, with all of the debt ceiling stuff coming, howard, this is not the kind of guy you want in that spot. >> larry, surely you're not

defending the republicans using the debt ceiling as a chip in negotiations, because if you are, i think you're as bad off as the republicans in the house. >> no, i don't want to see the debt ceiling violated or default. i do not. but i think a deal has to be made, howard. and i think -- spending cuts have to be the key part of that deal. this guy has a reputation not as a spending cutter, but as a tax hiker as steve forbes just said. >> the reason republicans don't like him, he's smarter than they are. which isn't hard to do these days. the fact of the matter is, obama's correct. you can't negotiate over the debt ceiling. it was never done before, before 2011, it should never have been done. you want to know why the dollar's down 10%? >> yes. >> because we made this ridiculous deal on the fiscal cliff that increases spending. had we gone over, the market would be up and the dollar would be stronger because we would've done something about the deficit. the dollar has nothing to do with any fiscal irresponsibility on obama's part because i don't think he's fiscally responsible.

it has to do with the deficit which i naturally blame on the republicans. >> steve forbes, i've got another one for you. this is -- maybe i shouldn't raise this, but obama raised this. obama is always accusing wall street fat cats, always talking about bonuses, obscene bonuses. well, for heaven sakes, jack lew was on wall street for a year. he ran the alternative investments at citibank and he got $1 million bonus to that and $1 million cash compensation on top of that. i don't begrudge him that. i'm a free market guy. but his boss begrudges people who made money and lew did that in one year. if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. >> well, again, he is in sync with his boss, president obama, and i think obama's willing to overlook those transgressions as long as you see the world the way he does. and in terms of governor dean, i almost think i'm re-hearing herbert hoover about the need to fight the deficit by raising taxes. raising taxes -- >> and cutting spending.

>> raising taxes is not the way to go. and you look at europe, they're raising taxes, japan is raising taxes and the result is a disaster. as you know, if we had normal growth economy, say 4%, which shouldn't be hard to do after what we've been through, you'd get an extra $400 billion, $500 billion right off the bat, instant, painless. >> howard, what's your reaction to that? you are against -- you wanted all the taxes to go up. by the way, for all i know, jack lew may have wanted the taxes to go up. howard, you're the biggest taxer. >> all right, larry, i wanted the taxes to go up and the spending to be cut. taxes went up on wealthy people, which is not as you and i have agreed upon. not enough to balance the budget. and there wasn't any cutting. we needed to do something in the fiscal cliff, we didn't do it and the deficit is as bad as it always was. tax cuts never paid for under george w. bush, because nobody had the nerve to cut the budget.

if you're going to cut taxes, cut the budget. if you're going to do more spending, you better raise taxes. but unfortunately, neither the democrats or the republicans have abided by that for quite some time. >> steve forbes, i'll give you the last word. do you think jack lew is remotely a pro-growth guy going to treasury? >> i think he's another herbert hoover type and it's bad because he doesn't understand growth, growth comes from incentive, growth comes from freedom, not from an ever larger government and from cheapening the dollar. you never get sustained growth by trashing your money. and i don't think he gets that at all. >> all right. we're going to have to leave it there. thank you, gentlemen. steve forbes, thank you. meanwhile, president obama's new cabinet appointees are starting to show a major shift to the left. that's my view. okay? let's start with chuck hagel replacing leon panetta. i fear hagel is going to dismantle the whole department of defense. we're talking about jack lew who is certainly further to the left of tim geithner. mr. lew is a government lifer.

and john kerry well to the left of hillary clinton who was also recorded as rather hawkish as a senator. now hilda solis is resigning. not sure what that means, but as the president's moving further to the left in his second term. not a centrist. let's bring back karen finney, columnist for the hill. guy benson, and mark simone. guy, i think these appointments, all three of them, particularly, particularly hagel at defense, show a move to the left. what's your take? >> sure, i mean, of course they do, the president's a lefty, that's who he is. and now that he never has to face voters again, i think we'll see his administration drift even further to the left. i do see the lew appointment at least as an opportunity for republicans to highlight the fact that we have not had a federal budget in almost four years. and it is 100% the fault of

democrats. a lot of americans don't know that. at least give guys like that a chance to really beat that drum. and one other thing, larry, i'm interested to see the labor department pick with solis on her way out, i think if you look at labor unions, they're licking their wounds a little bit over what happened in michigan. i think there's going to be a lot of pressure on the white house to put a very hard left person in that position. we'll see who it is. >> yeah, karen, they'll probably put the head of aflcio in the labor department. go ahead and be done with it. >> maybe the head of pbs, right? come on, guys. not surprising -- >> oh, you mean big bird. >> exactly. >> labor department, guy, it's a good point. they're going to put some rampant pro labor person in there. >> that would be horrible. no, let's wait and see. and as to the -- remember that jack lew will also during those confirmation hearings remind people of a time when he worked for president bill clinton when we had a time of surpluses that were turned into deficits by

republicans. if we're going to play that game, guy, let's make sure we tell the whole story. >> and why didn't they put in erskine bowles? >> he said he didn't want to do it. i've known him since he was chief of staff at the white house, he didn't want to do it. >> i'm just saying, if you're going to go back to clinton, you've got to go back to er bowles. but i didn't see mr. obama try to twist his arm at all. >> we don't know that and can't know that. >> chuck hagel's not a centrist. east going to dismantle the department of defense. >> here's the problem with this conversation. it always amounts to size. and i know guys like to talk about size, but what about -- what is an effective use of dollars for the military that we need now? because if you even talk to guys who are boots on the ground, some of the money that gets spent by the bureaucracy of the department of defense isn't doing what they needed to be doing. so i think a guy who was an infantry man who fought in a war

i think actually may have a better sense of what do we really need to be doing to make sure that we are building the army and have the capacities and the navy and the armed forces that we need for today not yesterday. >> mark simone, you think these cabinet appointments show him moving -- obama moving center or left? >> well, clearly to the left. and he has every right to move to the left. that's where he is. i see it as a move to mediocrity. 20 million people in this country and john kerry's the best we can do. it's a mediocre characters, the same, he's in the state department, the treasury department. he's bouncing around from one end of government to the other. we can do better than this. >> you're right. lew is a lifer. actually, he started out working for a left wing massachusetts democrat i think in the '70s. then he went on to tip o'neill. he was the star, bless his soul, but he was a lefty. and here he is bouncing around the obama administration and now he's got the treasury

department, which is a serious agency. but not a left wing agency. hooest got to deal with g-20 bankers around the world. i don't think he can do it. >> these are guys you can trust with a $1 trillion coin in their pocket. >> i don't think i trust anyone -- >> we've got to do this platinum coin later. it's too much. but you guys hang with me for a while. mark, karen, guy, you're all coming back. crisis, fear, and states of emergency. i'm not talking fiscal here, i'm talking about the flu. it's become a nationwide problem this year and one major city has just sounded the alarm bells. we have that story next up. ♪ you know my heart burns for you... ♪ i'm up next, but now i'm singing the heartburn blues. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. cue up alka-seltzer. it stops heartburn fast. ♪ oh what a relief it is!

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another day, another embarrassing incident for boeing and its 787 dream liner. today was brake problems that canceled a flight. yesterday, there was a fuel leak, spilled 40 gallons of fuel on the runway. monday in boston, there was a battery fire. both of those were japanese airline flights. boeing keeps saying these are minor issues. easily fixed, and the planes are safe to fly. but you know what? a lot of people are now saying that many of these problems are coming from outsourcing. that's right. outsourcing. and the fact in america we don't seem to have enough qualified engineers to do the job.

meanwhi meanwhile, the flu season is going to be one of the worst in at least a decade. now the mayor of boston is declaring a public health emergency. good evening, alicia. >> good evening, larry. the mayor called this a flu epidemic today, already four people have died tied to the flu. so far, there have been an estimated 700 flu occasions in the city of boston alone, that's compared to 70 cases, all of last season, we are only half way through the flu season this year. so the city is providing free flu clinics this weekend to try to get people immunized. larry? >> alicia, are people calling in, out of work, staying out of work because of this? >> there have been a lot of people calling out sick and actually health officials are encouraging them to do so if they have a temperature over 100.5 degrees and they have those flu-like symptoms, the fever, the runny nose, coughing, sore throat, or body aches. they are encouraging people to call out of work so they don't

make their co-workers sick. >> what is this doing to the school system? >> the schools are on high alert at this point. they're encouraging kids to wash their hands and cover their mouths when they cough. they say so far it hasn't been so bad because the timing of this many kids were at school break over the christmas and new year's holiday, so that kind of helped to stop the spread of this in the schools, but obviously, we are still only half way through the flu season. >> many thanks to alicia, we appreciate it. now to the magic coin trick. i say to anybody backing a trillion dollar platinum coin to solve our debt problems is ridiculous. is stupid, and is totally wrong and risks turning our nation into a banana republic. that's how dumb i think this idea is. we'll debate the platinum coin, a crazy thing next up.

excuse me, sir i'm gonna have to ask you to power down your little word game. i think your friends will understand. oh no, it's actually my geico app...see? ...i just uh paid my bill. did you really? from the plane? yeah, i can manage my policy, get roadside assistance, pretty much access geico 24/7. sounds a little too good to be true sir. i'll believe that when pigs fly. ok, did she seriously just say that? geico. just click away with our free mobile app.

earlier today, jay carney was repeatedly asked direct questions about the possibility of creating a $1 trillion platinum coin to swoop in and somehow save america from a debt ceiling crisis. his answer, well, it's not yes, but shockingly, it's not a no either. please take a listen. >> you can speculate about a lot of things, but there is -- nothing needs to come to these kinds of, you know, speculative notions about how to deal with a

problem that is easily resolved by congress doing its job. >> all right. well, congress should do its job, that was kind of a non-denial denial from jay carney. does this mean there's a trillion dollar platinum coin on the table. our ace political panel, karen finney, guy benson, mark simone. you wrote about this. this is the worst idea i have ever seen. this is a third world banana republic idea that will destroy our currency, credit rating and make us the laughing stock of the world. >> no, larry, you got this all wrong. i have a little bit of a take on this. i'm all for this coin. as a matter of fact, look, we already have washington politicians engaged in the theater of the absurd when it comes to our debt problems, so why not go the full monty. let's take it a step further and mint 17 of these puppies, create a magical surplus. imagine the investments for our children, larry, we can make with a fanciful surplus with 17

magic bean style coins. on a more serious note, i think that it takes a lot to get the american public's attention when it comes to the debt issue and how serious it really is and how immediate it's going to be sooner than we'd like to think. the absolute insanity of this idea is maybe just enough to get people to wake up and say, hang on what the hell is going on in washington right now? and who is trying to fix the problem. that's what we have to do. none of these ridiculous gimmicks. >> that's is the most tortured logic i have heard in quite some time mark simone, would you buy a platinum coin for $1 trillion? i offer you a plt numb coin say take a trillion, do you buy that? >> from you, i might trust it. i thought the carter administration was crazy with odd/even gas lines. in this administration talking about fiscal cliffs, debt ceiling and now $1 trillion coin. this calls for guys in white

jackets to take us away. it's out of control. whose picture would you put on a coin like that? >> this is a democratic idea. >> come on, larry. it's a ridiculous idea. for once, i absolutely agree with you this is the most ridiculous idea i have ever heard. not just because we'd be the laughing stock of the world and at this point we're about the strongest economy in the world right now. to guy's point, whether or not it gets people's attention, i think people are paying attention to how broken washington is. but more importantly, what does that say to the american people? the people you elect to go to washington to do a job can't do their job. they're going to make new rules. within -- i think it erodes confidence in our government. it's such a ridiculous idea. >> the other thing, karen, i think you're absolutely right and the important point to recall, we got downgraded by s&p

not because we didn't raise the debt ceiling, we did, it's because of the lack of seriousness in tackling the problems, and $1 trillion coin, i think exhibits the ultimate lack of seriousness. >> this administration gets people's attention in the wrong ways through class warfare. and many will think if this is possible, we ought to do these sort of things. >> you know, you can't -- by the way, i could spend time in the weeds telling you why legally you can't do this. why the federal reserve does not buy assets from the mint. the mint prints dollar bills to replace old dollar bills. that's all they do. and the mint can create coins for the treasury department. and by the way, none of this stuff is legal tender. >> and it's never going to happen anyway. >> okay. so i'll ask you a question, karen finney. let's stay with this. instead of this stupid coin idea, instead of this utterly stupid banana republic coin idea, why don't we get serious and start cutting spending? in fact, why don't we get, a, a budget out of the senate democrats for the first time in

four years and, b, implementation of the across the board spending sequester, which might do some good for the country and its credibility. >> how about instead let's have -- because the only way we move forward on any of those things is if everybody sits down at the table and everybody is willing to negotiate. again, when we talk about last year, we talk about this year, i'm sorry, guys, but the republicans have been the ones who have been the most unwilling to do -- to bend, to put anything on the table and we, you know, we can't have a conversation about spending cuts as the president has said without having a conversation about revenue. we're going to have -- >> we just did that. >> no, no, no, no -- we basically just said, we took one piece off the table, that doesn't solve the whole problem. i think we're going to have a conversation about the whole problem, we need to be honest about the whole problem and put it on the table. >> the solution to out of control spending is to figure out how to stop it, not to pay for it, it's how to stop it. >> again, i think the whole conversation about the budget is flawed in that, again, it goes big versus small when it should

be about what is effective versus what is ineffective. for there are programs that are ineffective or places where, we should look at those. instead, we get locked into the conversation about big versus small rather than saying what is it to make -- what does an effective government look like? that's the conversation we should be having. >> this current spending level you agree is too high. >> i agree we need to have a rational conversation about what effective government looks like and what spending that requires. >> yeah, but to have a discussion about the budget, it requires having a budget, which we haven't had in four years. step one, bottom line. >> but between the republican -- but the republicans in the house have passed budgets they've sent over to the senate snowing that even republicans in the senate wouldn't vote for. so come on, guy. that's a little bit of a false charge. >> the 95% of senate republicans voted for the senate for the republican budget out of the house, which they were required to do by law and they did it. >> all right. i've got to leave it there. we're going to get karen some

platinum-colored earrings to go with her outfit. looks like $1 million, not a trillion, a million. thanks, everybody, i'm larry kudlow. that's this evening's show. see you tomorrow night. at 1:45, the aflac duck was brought in with multiple lacerations to the wing and a fractured beak. surgery was successful, but he will be in a cast until it is fully healed, possibly several months. so, if the duck isn't able to work, how will he pay for his living expenses? aflac. like his rent and car payments? aflac. what about gas and groceries? aflac. cell phone? aflac, but i doubt he'll be using his phone for quite a while cause like i said, he has a fractured beak. [ male announcer ] send the aflac duck a get-well card at getwellduck.com. office superstore ink retailer in america.

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